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-   -   LW Tropical M-41 Model (http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=473357)

-Ray- 11-11-2010 02:36 PM

LW Tropical M-41 Model
 
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Hi,

Can you guys handle another M-41 prospect? Here's an after market example.
I'm posting this as prompted by John Hodgin based off another thread regarding the Kockarde. Due to this discussion and the rarity of these caps I have my doubts concerning a few key points which I'll caption along with the illustrations.

The actual color hue has a very rich mustard color hue that just isn't captured by the photoghraphy.

One positive aspect to start with is the fabric texture which I find very desireable and related to my LW Tropical Hollandia overseas cap and typical LW tropical shirt material.

This cap is somewhat floppy in structure and stands with the interior assistance of a car wash sponge(not seen) for structural support.

Please bear in mind; I have no problems with any one telling me this is completly no good.

-Ray- 11-11-2010 02:38 PM

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Obliques

-Ray- 11-11-2010 02:41 PM

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Here's the link to the thread perhaps suggesting a KM Tropical kocarde application: http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=473318

This key point of discussion negatively holds my attention here.

-Ray- 11-11-2010 02:47 PM

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Another aspect that has some detractors is the grommets. Non convetional structure and appllication. Could be from a boot type but maybe just a private production exception.

-Ray- 11-11-2010 02:48 PM

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Liner seems to be of a material similar to an era flag consistency.

-Ray- 11-11-2010 02:52 PM

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Manufacture's logo. I always thought Europeans never used the acrynom "Co." until my wife clarified this?

Anyone seen this stamp as a known fake or genuine trait?


Thanks for your interest.

-Ray-

Bond 11-11-2010 03:03 PM

Hi Ray,
it seems a bit odd that its for luft, but had a soutache, which says Heer, but its dated 43, when soutaches should not still be being applied.

Jerry:smokin:

Bond 11-11-2010 03:51 PM

[QUOTE=VonBond;4316953]Hi Ray,
it seems a bit odd that its for luft, but had a soutache, which says Heer, but its dated 43, when soutaches should not still be being applied.

I'm not sure if my previous post is showing, it seems to have disappeared on my com, and it only shows on the thread, but not on the forum list? The forum crashed as I tried to post it, which might be why.

Jerry:smokin:

Both posts are showing now, so what ever it was is sorted.

afrikasandman 11-12-2010 01:55 AM

Ray,

well there are a lot of things that don't get me going with this cap. First off is the material... its just not what I would expect to see in a Heer cap and as Jerry pointed out a soutache cap in 43.... Now it was not uncommon for the luft guys to wear Heer tropical caps or to simply get the Heer caps and remove the soutache but leave the cockade and add a luft cap eagle or a luft breast eagle (tropical or continental) Overall im not a big fan but perhaps NZMARK will weigh in here. I think I would run away with no remorse on this one. Matt:army:

-Ray- 11-12-2010 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afrikasandman (Post 4317782)
Ray,

well there are a lot of things that don't get me going with this cap. First off is the material... its just not what I would expect to see in a Heer cap and as Jerry pointed out a soutache cap in 43.... Now it was not uncommon for the luft guys to wear Heer tropical caps or to simply get the Heer caps and remove the soutache but leave the cockade and add a luft cap eagle or a luft breast eagle (tropical or continental) Overall im not a big fan but perhaps NZMARK will weigh in here. I think I would run away with no remorse on this one. Matt:army:

I wouldn't even consider any affiliated traits to a standard factory Heer cap it's very plain to see that. This isn't a cap i'm holding my breath over.
Maybe this is just a movie prop?

Any field made or private purchase cap is going to be odd regardless since theres nothing to compare them with to consider them original.

Also I can see the soutche stitching and ghosting. Another reasons of my doubts and would probably assess this as some post war application perhaps. I also would'nt tranfix 100% judgement though on rule of thumb standards either. As we know there are many eccentric and motely photographs defying regulations also with LW wearing soutche and some in wear probably post 43?

The most likeable thing for this cap is the material. This is something I would consider period or the fakers just got right? Having old material in hand seems maybe difficult to duplicate and this the about the only thing would pacify me otherwise I have always been in doubt. I had this since the 90's
The eagle is looking good to go here.

Thanks Jerry and Matt for your replies

NZMark 11-12-2010 04:14 PM

Well,
Several points look good, but several look inconsistant with known original caps.
Can we see the grommets in detail, and do you feel any insignia underneath the LW eagle at all?
The date with supposed removed soutache is a very bad indicator as is the actual cap profile and shell material...while the cockade itself would appear from the photos to be a modern synthetic reproduction, but in truth I just cannot tell from these photos.
I won't make any judgement call yet - I'd really like some better photos with stronger lighting, though?
I have seen single grommet caps, so...
Regards,
Mark.

afrikasandman 11-12-2010 10:13 PM

It could have been a field made cap but that doesn't explain away the stamping on the inside. Caps do exist with variations of 1 and 2 grommets or no grommets (like one that I own). Could also be Italian material but I do agree with Mark that better lighted pics would help but I still am not holding my breath for it to be a good one. Matt:army:

Tim O'Keefe 11-13-2010 01:46 AM

Hi Ray

Don't like it more than i do.

Also would like to hear what John thinks of this one ?

with best regards
Tim


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