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-   -   Lovely Grossdeutschland 2nd pattern? (http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1019445)

Kyle Harrington 10-10-2019 11:37 AM

Lovely Grossdeutschland 2nd pattern?
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Earthy been there piece 40cms sewn rear if only it could speak!!

Kyle Harrington 10-10-2019 11:38 AM

Pic 2
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Pic 2

Kyle Harrington 10-10-2019 11:39 AM

Rear shot
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Kyle Harrington 10-10-2019 11:40 AM

Pic 4
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CSP 10-19-2019 08:08 AM

I agree with you.

In Vol 2 I 'dubbed' this a "5th pattern" - mainly because, up until that point, the conventional wisdom for decades had held that four patterns existed.

Your stating it a "2nd pattern" actually may be more accurate (depending on how one counts the sequencing of issued and prototype patterns). It definitely followed the issue of the "1st" pattern (which may have been 1st or 2nd in sequence): the woven silver wire on green (sometimes mistakenly referred to as the "Waffenrock style"). The evidence (i.e., photographs and orders) indicates that the 1st pattern was seen in June 1939 during the introduction to the public of the GD Waffenrock with special collar ad cuff Patten. The 1st pattern was then actually issued while GD was on occupation duty in France following the French Campaign (in June 1939, Inf.-Regt. GD had a designated but as yet unfulfilled structure, which would take into 1940 to fully realize). At least this time frame is the first I can detect of GD members wearing any cufftitle. The cufftitle was a disappointment in both color and style...and I think that disappointment goes back to this June 1939 unveiling, because a different version was contemplated and made as a prototype around the same time: the "Inf.-Regt. Großdeutschland" version. This type was never put into production. It retained (or introduced) the silver on green colors (albeit the green was more muted to distinguish it from both the 1st pattern and the border customs green), was woven, and designated for a regiment (I do not know the point at which a decision was made to expand GD to a division...but believe this was determined by early 1941). Whether it was sequenced before or after the issued "1st" pattern is debatable. I do not know the truth.

But - back to your cufftitle. These were locally procured while GD was on occupation duty...so, one can make a strong case that they were made in France. When exactly the decision was made to dump the woven silver on green in favor of the iconic "3rd pattern": embroidered silver wire on black wool Sütterlin script cufftitle, I do not know. So these "French" cufftitles are mixed up in all that turmoil and unknown facts. My personal belief is some (not all) subordinate units of the Regiment replaced the green cufftitles with these "French" cufftitles. The issue of the green cufftitles ceased/was withdrawn and - with fore knowledge that the new cufftitle would be embroidery on black, but believing the lettering would remain Gothic - these subordinate units acquired these locally made cufftitles.

Regardless, I amd comfortable stating/agreeing that you have a rare original...in nicely used condition...of what Vol 2 refers to as Type A (Typed B and C were variations of color of borders and embroidery thread). That you have about 40 cm of length, it is all the more desirable.

Kyle Harrington 10-19-2019 04:09 PM

Thanks mate
You know in this game when you have a an original it speaks. More interesting is the person who I acquired this from tells me it is his grandad's and there is more stuff to come.He lost his grandfather recently so I am not pushing it.He said his grandpa did not like talking about the war so I await further communication but tempered with respect.

Once more thanks mate


Kyle Harrington 10-19-2019 04:19 PM

You live and learn

I was unaware GD conducted occupation duties in the west, please excuse my ignorance, we are all students so to speak thank you for such an informative post mate.In hand this is a real beauty and I have owned several GD cuffs but not like this Scott.

Kind regards Kyle

CSP 10-20-2019 07:01 PM

Kyle...you are welcome.

I hope the family makes you the caretaker and historian entrusted with his remaining legacy items.

Kyle Harrington 10-23-2019 10:13 AM

Thanks Scott
Cheers mate I appreciate your input

Regards Kyle

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