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-   -   BGS BundesGrenzSchutz (http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252712)

Klaus1989 11-24-2007 08:44 PM

If anyone could help locate a cap eagle for BGS Schirmmütze, let me know. A cap I bought is missing it. Thanks.

Klaus

Gordon Craig 11-25-2007 03:15 AM

In post #35 the peaked cap shows an eagle while the M43 style cap shows a roundel. Photos look to be from the same time period. Was this always the practice with the M43 style cap and when did it come into wear?

Cheers,

Gordon

Gordon Craig 11-25-2007 11:39 AM

Klaus,

Have you tried Stephan? I just saw this embroidered BGS repro cap set advertised on ebay.de.

http://translate.google.com/translat...y.de%26hl%3Den

Regards,

Gordon

Gene T 11-25-2007 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordon.criag (Post 2305765)
The hood. Here is the auction URL http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=004

Regards,

Gordon


This is interesting. The jacket/smock shown appears to be a third pattern (squarish collar tips, pocket on the upper left arm). If it had provisions for the attachment of a hood, that would make it a transition model between the second and third pattern (as roughly defined by Peterson).

I also noticed something else. On my second pattern example, the shoulder cape is of a four piece construction (left and right front and back panels), with top seams on both shoulders. As near as I can tell, this is so that the 'rain drops' in the camo pattern would stay vertical front and back. On the third pattern, the cape is of a two piece construction - left and right panels joined by a central seam in the back. As a result, the 'rain drops' come down diagonally in the front (if the 'rain drops' are vertical in the back, they would come down on the front in a distal to medial orientation, as seen on the example being auctioned; if the rain is horizontal on the back, as on my own '71 dated example, the drops on the front would go from medial to distal instead). The second pattern example in Peterson's book shows distal to medial diagonal 'rain drops' on the cape, without an obvious shoulder seam, so I assume it too, had a two piece cape.

The only thing that's clear is that even among the more common second and third type Sumpftarn jackets/smocks, there are some minor model variations in terms of construction details and camo patterns. If this had been a 'serious' collecting area, we'd be talking about Type IIa, Type IIIb, etc. As it is, I hadn't looked that closely at these jackets/smocks until I came across this thread.

cheers,
Gene T

Klaus1989 11-26-2007 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordon.criag (Post 2307098)
Klaus,

Have you tried Stephan? I just saw this embroidered BGS repro cap set advertised on ebay.de.

http://translate.google.com/translat...y.de%26hl%3Den

Regards,

Gordon

The link does not work. I only get homepage ebay.de. I got the Schirmmütze today and there seems to be no sign that there was Bundesadler removed - was their period without it (and with Kokarde in wreath)?

I have also noted that there are two versions of BGS Schirmmütze: one with Korkarde in wreath (with or without Bundesadler) and the other with Staatswappen in wreath and Kokarde above it. Which is earlier version?

Klaus

SprogCollector 11-26-2007 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klaus1989 (Post 2309901)
I have also noted that there are two versions of BGS Schirmmütze: one with Korkarde in wreath (with or without Bundesadler) and the other with Staatswappen in wreath and Kokarde above it. Which is earlier version?

Klaus

This is an excellent question. I picked up my Schirmmütze which was listed as BGS from 1957 -- supposedly from the owners granddaughter. Mine has the Staatswappen in wreath and Kokarde above it. However, I've been told this is a Zoll cap.

http://www.stby.com/BW/DSC03737a.jpg

Klaus1989 11-27-2007 09:36 PM

I think you might be right. I found one on ebay.de that was similar to yours but had metal insignia and a dark gold (not green) and silver banded cap cord. It was advertised as "sehr frühe Ausführung BGS Schirmmütze" but I think otherwise - a little too green for early BGS. BGS items were grey early on, not green until mid-1970s when they changed to look like Polizei.

"BGS" Cap on ebay.de that I think is Zoll:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=003

I would still be interested in knowing if there was period when no Bundesadler was used on cap since mine shows no sign of it. The Kokarde is metal, two piece construction. Hopefully photos up this weekend or next week.

Klaus

Gordon Craig 11-28-2007 01:01 AM

Klaus,

I have a cap like the one on ebay that you posted the URL of and it is a Zoll cap in my opinion. As for the schirmutze and the cap badges, I don't know the answer to that question although I have intended to look through the pictures of my BGS cap collection and see but I do not ever remember seeing one with anything other than the eagle. Hope to have time this week to start a new thread on just BGS caps and then maybe we can gather some more information on cap badges that way.

Regards,

Gordon

Klaus1989 11-28-2007 09:15 PM

Siegmund Stephan has a good deal on just the cap eagle in his ebay store, so I will go with him for ordering. I was just puzzled that my cap did not appear to have holes for the eagle but I think it might be unissued.

Klaus

Guardian 5 12-20-2007 06:15 PM

BGS "Jump Wings"
 
1 Attachment(s)
Gents - After a decade long hunt, I finally managed to get my hands on a set of GSG 9 jumps wings!

Other insignia included in the lot are:

- (GSG 9 Jump Wings) top
- GSG 9 unit insignia, worn over right breast (?)
- GSG 9 aviator wings (felt and "BeVo" )

I would love to hear from anyone who could tell me how these coveted badges are earned; BGS vets and enthusiasts share your knowledge!

Thanks - G5

Gordon Craig 12-21-2007 03:46 PM

G5,

Great looking insignia. Now if I only had an original tunic with this insignia on it!

Regards,

Gordon

ehrentitle 12-23-2007 07:53 PM

Just happend across this interesting thread. I have a good number of BGS shoulder boards to trade for east german insignia if anyone is interested. Photos of them are at: http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=172081

Klaus1989 12-27-2007 12:33 PM

I have finally acquired an early BGS Mantel. Do not know how rare they are but I have never seen one before. Hopefully it will arrive sometime soon so I can post it.

Klaus

Gordon Craig 12-27-2007 01:56 PM

Klaus,

Nice addition to your colelction. I haven't seen very many of these for sale on ebay so there is probably not many of them around. Looking forward to the pictures.

Regards,

Gordon

Guardian 5 01-01-2008 04:29 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I came across this Bundeswehr oliv model field flask painted in BGS green some years back. Note also the flashlight in BGS green.

TJ


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