Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums (http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/index.php)
-   Wehrmacht Equipment Forum (http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=41)
-   -   Canteens (http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23407)

Willi Z. 04-27-2003 01:56 PM

Canteens
 
1 Attachment(s)
Two of my favorite canteens. A pre-war medics canteen with black painted aluminum cup. All matching to regards to maker and date on the straps, cover, cap and neck of canteen.

And a true tropical canteen and strap, dated '42. The aluminum cup is painted in that olive tan color.

Willi

04-27-2003 02:47 PM

1 Attachment(s)
very nice Willi ! I think that in such a good condition and matching maker/dates, they are quiet hard to get.


here is a Sanitäter canteen, note the erzats-leather.

04-27-2003 02:50 PM

1 Attachment(s)
These are the other three from my collection. 2 early ones with black painted aluminium cup ( 37 and 39 dated), and a mid/late war one with green painted steel cup, which is also painted red inside against rust I think. This one is dated 43' and has a nice LUX-canvas/tropical strap, which is reinforced with leather.

Willi Z. 04-27-2003 08:47 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Yes Jan, I agree. Textbook all complete, untouched and matching canteens are tough to find.

Here are a few '44 dated ones. Steel painted canteens and steel painted cups. Note the late-war fabric used on some of them.

Willi Z. 04-27-2003 08:49 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Some '43 trop style canteens.

04-28-2003 04:19 PM

Great stuff!!! just love them...[love]


anyone else who'd like to share his canteens?

merdock 04-30-2003 01:33 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Hi,
heres my only water bottle ,vet gift no cup did they all have cups.
All the best Merdock

merdock 04-30-2003 01:34 PM

1 Attachment(s)
markings.

merdock 04-30-2003 01:39 PM

1 Attachment(s)
,

04-30-2003 01:46 PM

Merdock, your canteen is a army issued one, so yes, there should be a cup.
If I'm correct there are some para-military branches that had smaller bottles with no cup, but I'm not sure exactly which branches that were.



cheers

Jan

John Hodgin 04-30-2003 03:06 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Hi Jan,

Here are two that I posted earlier on another thread, the larger mtn. liter bottle, and a standard .8 liter size.
Best,
John

John Hodgin 04-30-2003 03:07 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Back sides. The standard bottle was issued, initials "H.T." are in several places.

04-30-2003 03:20 PM

very nice John!!
 
1 Attachment(s)
I think that the left one ( largest) was also used without the carrying strap, like Sani canteens normally have...

I found this picture ( Brian L.Davis' German Army Uniforms). It shows DAK-soldiers ready for departure.One of them has two of these attached directly to the breadbag!

Greetings


Jan

John Hodgin 04-30-2003 03:26 PM

Hi Jan,

Great photo. Got any more unusual examples? Yes, a liter size was used in Afrika. I have a few more I'll post when I can. IMO, the mountain bottle never had a strap like the medical model does.

Both bottles I posted are dated 41.
Best,
John

04-30-2003 04:11 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

IMO, the mountain bottle never had a strap like the medical model does.
You're right, sorry, I was a little bit confused.

will search for more pictures concerning those large bottles used in Africa.

here's another one that shows a soldiers wearing two 'normal seize' canteens on his way to the Greec island ' Dodekanesos'. This photograph was taken in september 1943 ( WW2, day by day ;Anthony Shaw).


cheers

Jan

Jos L C 05-01-2003 08:21 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Hi,
Here's a nice early 1937 luftwaffe canteen I have.


:)

05-01-2003 08:45 AM

They don't come any better then that for sure, thanks Jos!

I already noticed ( from your pictures in the collectors display forum) that the most of your fieldgear ( messtin, forgs, gasmaskcanisters, etc...) are really in mint condition:eek: !

that's just great, but on the other hand hard to find, no?

cheers

Jan

John Hodgin 05-01-2003 08:57 AM

Black canteen cups
 
Hi Jan and Jos,

Good to see your bottles with the black cups. Jos, that LBA marked bottle is superb! IME, black cups are mainly a pre-war color, and your bottles help prove a point. You wouldn't believe how many times I've heard foolish dealers claim that bottles with black cups were only for the SS..:laugh: :nono:

Regards,
John

SOLDAT1 05-01-2003 09:49 AM

CANTEENS
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here is four of my canteens the one with the green cup I matched up the cup I bought from a dealer, the only other cup I have seen was a orange one in Cyrus a lee's book Soldat vl 3 how common are these? Maker marked gfc and dated 1942 you can still buy the plastic ones in German camping shops thinner plastic and no maker on them

Rob

SOLDAT1 05-01-2003 09:50 AM

1 Attachment(s)
2

SOLDAT1 05-01-2003 09:52 AM

1 Attachment(s)
3

05-01-2003 10:23 AM

Quote:

You wouldn't believe how many times I've heard foolish dealers claim that bottles with black cups were only for the SS..
John, I've heard similar story overhere...when I told the guy that this wasn't the case at all, he started to claim that HE was collecting over 30 years and HE had it all once and I was to young to know, blablabla...you know these type of guys...[devil]

Rob : Indeed, I've seen them also in orange, but never in that color, very interesting! Could be ersatz,no? I don't think that these cups are common...nice canteens by the way!


cheers

Jan

SOLDAT1 05-01-2003 10:31 AM

Hi Jan
Thanks for the info a very interesting colour not very tactical is it! Stands out a bit don't you think, I would not of licked to of been issued it.

Rob

05-01-2003 10:34 AM

Rob,

Could it be painted black once? Do you find any traces of paint on it?

As for combat action, indeed not a good color!;)

cheers
Jan

SOLDAT1 05-01-2003 10:39 AM

Hi Jan
No there is no sign of any paint on the cup, interesting that it is dated 1942 as i thought mabe these sort of odd colours may of been late war becouse of lack of pigments.

Rob

05-01-2003 10:44 AM

thanks Rob...

Maximiliano 05-01-2003 04:59 PM

canteen
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here more canteen to compare,


Regards.

Max.

Maximiliano 05-01-2003 05:05 PM

1 Attachment(s)
.

Steve in Florida 05-05-2003 08:19 PM

Actually, that green cup
 
isn't too far off from some of the greens found in SS camo. It's pretty neat none the less. My two remaining canteens are like the one of the ones Willi shows, black bakelite cup with olive felt cover and olive web strap marked esb41 (IIRC). The other has grey green felt cover, black leather straps with medium green metal cup. The "tropical" canteen is in the lower left hand corner. http://www.members.aol.com/waffenundbier/Maitland2.jpg

Michael Kuligowski 05-16-2003 08:43 AM

For Jan and Merdock
 
Hello !!
I just read the whole thread.. and what makes me suprised is Merdock's feldflashe - the one without a cup.
I Think Jan You are wrong when saing that this one should have a cup - this type don't even have a strap to attach cup.
Here, among my fellow collectors we are calling this type "HJ" type - I have seen many photos when this type was in use by paramilitary HJ, SA members.

the one from collection

Sincerely, mike
http://www.militaria.gamesweek.pl/feldflashe_ 001.jpg
http://www.militaria.gamesweek.pl/feldflashe_ 002.jpg
http://www.militaria.gamesweek.pl/feldflashe_ 003.jpg
http://www.militaria.gamesweek.pl/feldflashe_ 004.jpg
http://www.militaria.gamesweek.pl/feldflashe_ 005.jpg

05-16-2003 09:35 AM

Hello Kuligow, you 've got a point there, but IMO merdock's canteen has lost the cup.

When you look at the first picture of it, you notice the difference in color of the feltcover, where the cup should be in place?

And yes, HJ used ' cupless';) canteens, but these were smaller and normally RZM marked, no?

Just my opinion off course...I could be wrong



cheers

Jan

Infanteer 05-16-2003 09:50 AM

I will have to agree that Merdock's canteen never had a cup. The straps are of a style that does not allow for the retention of a cup. Also, it has the extra strap around the neck of the bottle that a canteen with a cup does not have. I can see where it "may" appear that a cup was sitting at one time but when you consider the uneven staining on the whole front of the cover you realize that it is just that, a stain, and not the shadow of a cup IMO.

Steve

Michael Kuligowski 05-16-2003 10:25 AM

Thank You Jan !! Thank You Steve !!
Maybe.. we are victims of small manipulation - if there is a "shadow" on the cover left by cup - maybe cover comes from a different canteen - and was replaced looooong time ago ??? !?
I think we should have additional photos - naps were different in the HJ and army cover. Army cover have characteristic cross - HJ naps are blank painted black - like these on my canteen
Straps are 100% from HJ "np cup type" canteen.

05-16-2003 01:26 PM

Thanks Mike and Steve for clearing this out!

Mike, is it correct that there should always be a RZM-marking on HJ canteens and other gear...

merdock 05-16-2003 03:00 PM

Hi,
Just looked at the canteen again and it appears never to have had a cup ,forgive me if i appear a little confused but how does the cup fit over the strap attached to the stopper ?can someone show me a canteen with the cup removed for comparasion.
Also my canteen is marked 13 WR in faint ink any ideas on this.
All the best Merdock

Kai-Steffen M. 05-16-2003 07:24 PM

ok- my granddads canteen (original for sure- army for sure) looks very similar to merdocks- brown cover (it has shrinked- i cant close the two "druckknopf" on top - there are 4) and is marked WWE 34- there is no strap for a cup and there has never been a cup on it says my granddad- i can post bpics as soon as my digicam works..its condition is not very good though- it has been in constant use all the years- first my granddad used it when going hiking into the alps- then i used it for school excursion and the like...

Gruß,
KSM

Infanteer 05-16-2003 07:26 PM

Hi Merdock,

I understand your confusion because as I pointed out, your style of canteen was not made to be used with a cup. It is impossible to place a cup on the top without covering the hook. I can't post a photo but the canteens with the cup have a different leather strap configuration. I'm sure that someone can post a photo that will make it clear for you.

Steve

Michael Kuligowski 05-17-2003 09:09 AM

Steve, I am posting picture You wrote about - straps for "HJ" type (bottom picture) and army type with cup.
I am not sure about RZM's Jan.... I never had any canteen like that.. I also don't think that HJ canteens were smaller- maybe you have some pictures of it ?
http://www.militaria.gamesweek.pl/zap.jpg

05-17-2003 10:11 AM

Mike, I said that HJ-canteens were smaller, based on description that sellers gave on these canteens, I saw some dealers selling smaller canteens then the standard m31, and they told me that this were HJ issue.
I know zero about HJ, but I thought that some members could confirm this. I haven't got HJ-reference-pictures, maybe someone else...

Anyway, thanks for clearing this out! I still have to learn alot...

ps : But if I'm right they still had a seperate aluminium cup in their breadbag, no?

cheers

Jan

Infanteer 05-17-2003 12:42 PM

Kuligow - thanks for the excellent photos. It would have been difficult to describe the straps.

Jan - You are correct (as far as I know), the cupless style of canteen was often issued with a separate unpainted aluminum cup identical to those used during the first world war.

Since we are on the subject, I have a late war enamel canteen that I need a cup for. Can anyone direct me to where I can find one?

Cheers,

Steve


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:11 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Wehrmacht-Awards.com