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-   -   West German Polizei (http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284801)

Klaus1989 04-19-2008 05:51 PM

West German Polizei
 
The Landespolizei (LAPO) was West Germany's standard police organisation and was decentralised, each of Bundesländer having its own police force. Originally, LAPO were issued blue-grey uniforms in early 1950s to replace converted TR ones. These became more blue than grey over the years until replaced by familiar green uniforms in mid-late 1970s.

I guess enough of my research:laugh:, lets see those Polizei uniforms. I will start by posting my 1973-dated Niedersachsen Polizei jacket with rank of Obermeister. It has full lining and even striped sleeve lining - a nice tailored example, with tailor's label "C. Louis Weber, Hannover" (who also made my BGS Mantel!) on right inner pocket. Left interior pocket stamped year and size "1973 50." You do not see these often.

regards
Klaus

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j...achpolizei.jpg

Klaus1989 04-19-2008 05:59 PM

Date (1973) and size (50) manufacturer stamps:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j...i/polizei2.jpg

Tailor's label (C. Louis Weber, Hannover):
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j...i/polizei3.jpg

Gordon Craig 04-21-2008 09:33 AM

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I'll start with an example of the Blue colour worn by German Police Forces after the war. First, a bit of research to add to what Klaus said. Historically, individual landes were responsible for their own police forces. Under the Third Reich, everything was centrallized so that it was under the direct control of the government. (Read NSDAP here.) Under the occupation of the four powers follwoing the war, the U.S., France and Great Britian didn't want a national police force so returned control of the police to the Landes. The Russians maintaineda centrally controlled police force.
This first hat is a blue winter M43 style hat as worn by the West Berlin Police. The metal Berlin Police cocakde makes it easy to identfy this caps police force.

Gordon Craig 04-21-2008 09:34 AM

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A close up of the Berlin police cap badge.

Gordon Craig 04-21-2008 09:42 AM

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A side view of this cap. Note the blue piping around the crown and the fake fur on the turn down portion of the cap.

Gordon Craig 04-21-2008 09:46 AM

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A view of the interior of the cap. Notice the stamp on top of the cap. "P P Berlin GB". This stands for Polizei Prazidem Berlin. Seems to me I knew the meaning of the GB at one time but can not remember now!

Regards,

Gordon

Gordon Craig 04-21-2008 09:58 AM

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This next cap is an early police green cap. Someone has "upgraded" this cap by adding a repro TR Police eagle to the front. I have left it that way for the time being until I can be sure about the correct west german police cap badge to put on it.

A front view of the cap.

Gordon Craig 04-21-2008 09:59 AM

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A side view of the cap.

Gordon Craig 04-21-2008 10:01 AM

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The interior showing the sweat shield and the makers name.

Gordon Craig 04-21-2008 10:04 AM

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This cap is also marked to PP Berlin but this time on the underside of the leather sweatband.

Gordon Craig 04-21-2008 10:09 AM

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Next to the PP Berlin stamp, the owner has writen his unit "3/POL BAT 20" 3rd Company Police Battalion 20, his rank and his name.

Regards,

Gordon

Gerd W. 04-21-2008 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klaus1989 (Post 2589843)
The Landespolizei (LAPO) was West Germany's standard police organisation and was decentralised, each of Bundesländer having its own police force. Originally, LAPO were issued blue-grey uniforms in early 1950s to replace converted TR ones. These became more blue than grey over the years until replaced by familiar green uniforms in mid-late 1970s. I guess enough of my research:laugh:,

It was indeed a bit more complex tought smilewink

City Polices and Gendarmerie for the US zones as well, GB zone normaly rural districts and and and..........

Very first uniform style (TR with sleeve band) Niedersachsen, GB zone

Gerd W. 04-21-2008 11:09 AM

Here the second style

Very first blue

Gerd W. 04-21-2008 11:10 AM

Early 50ies started with blue/gray, still without a sleeve patch

Gerd W. 04-21-2008 11:21 AM

Here one of the 3th style I still use to have (since 30 years :dead: )

Gerd W. 04-21-2008 11:22 AM

the maker lable

Gerd W. 04-21-2008 11:30 AM

So your´s Klaus is the 4th style for Niedersachsen.

For Niedersachsen all will be followed by the "fantastic awesome green hunter dress" :dead: from 1977 and the new blue uniform since 2006

Here the 60/70 ies uniform for the highest rank officer in Niedersachsen : Inspekteur der Schutzpolizei


PS: All museums photo taken in the Hannover Police museum (worth a visit thumbsup )

seeker007 04-21-2008 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerd W. (Post 2592977)
It was indeed a bit more complex tought smilewink

City Polices and Gendarmerie for the US zones as well, GB zone normaly rural districts and and and..........

Very first uniform style (TR with sleeve band) Niedersachsen, GB zone

I must be really tired, At first I thought this picture was from someone's home display. I was thinking "Boy, this guy really knows how to show off a great uniform!" *doh* That's what I get for working graveyard and being tired. :laugh:

Gerd W. 04-21-2008 11:35 AM

My favorite

Mid 60ies traffic police (Mot -motorisierte Verkehrspolizei) and for escorts

Gerd W. 04-21-2008 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeker007 (Post 2593019)
I must be really tired, At first I thought this picture was from someone's home display. I was thinking "Boy, this guy really knows how to show off a great uniform!" *doh* That's what I get for working graveyard and being tired. :laugh:

Ops........ sorrym for the confusion, wrote the information about the museums pictures maybe a way too late!

I planned to display my stuff that way, but after my first attempt, my wife called me mad :tookitint I really have no clue what she wanted to tell me..... :uhoh2:

However, I use to collect pre 1933 Police stuff, post 45 is a way too young for me.

Gordon Craig 04-21-2008 02:06 PM

Gerd,

Thanks for the pictures. I was going to ask what museum they were taken in but now I don't have to. I'll have to put the Hanover Police museum on my list of places to visit. Too bad I didn't know about it sooner then I could have payed it a visit when I am in Germany next month.

Regards,

Gordon

Klaus1989 04-21-2008 03:20 PM

Gerd:
Thanks for the uniform history of Niedersachsen Polizei! I find it especially interesting because family is from Niedersachsen (not Hannover though).

regards
Klaus

Huntzman 05-03-2008 08:02 PM

Klaus

Gerd is 100% correct thumbsup

Quote:

It was indeed a bit more complex tought .... City Polices and Gendarmerie for the US zones as well, GB zone normaly rural districts and and and..........
To study policing in Germany after WWII is quite a project. I have been collecting post WWII German police insignia since 1986 and even now I learn new things.

As Gerd said, the differences in the organization structure can be seen from US to British to French to Russian sectors. Also, interesting enough each country also brought with it some of it's local "police" history. You see this in the US sector with the use of breast badges !!

A good topic to study, but make sure you have lots of headache medicine thumbsup

Andrew

Klaus1989 06-13-2008 09:44 PM

NRW Polizei Kommissar
 
I have added two more Polizei uniforms to my collection from the same time period as the Niedersachsen Obermeister. It is interesting to see differences in colour and style among all Bundesländer in late 1960s-1976.

Here is my Nordrhein-Westfalen Polizei Kommissar tunic. It is dated 1974 and made by Wilhelm Kuhl. This style of uniform was used by NRW Polizei 1970-1976. Unusually for Lapo uniforms, it is styled more like civilian suit jacket than that of other Bundesländer. Made of "Vestan" (50/50 Polyester and Schurwolle). Whoever wore this was big man - would not want to mess with him:laugh:

regards
Klaus

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j...NRWpolizei.jpg

Liner:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j...ei/NRWpol2.jpg

Maker label:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j...lizei/NRW3.jpg

Klaus1989 06-13-2008 09:53 PM

West Berlin Schutzpolizei Oberkommissar
 
Next is my personal favourite - a privately tailored Westberlin Schutzpolizei Oberkommissar tunic. This tunic is very well-made and has a number of features I have not seen in other BRD tunics such as belt hook suspensions/holes and dagger hanger. Beautiful bullion Kragenspiegel and emroidered sleeve patches for rank and "Schutzpolizei Berlin." Dated 1970 and tailored by Tofaute + Gronwald Dienstbekleidung, Berlin.

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j.../berlinpol.jpg

Liner: note reinforced slot on right side of wearer (left in photo) - similar to sword hanger hole - except Schupo didnt wear swords!
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j...berlinpol2.jpg

Dagger hanger? Never heard of BRD using dress daggers...
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j...berlinpol3.jpg

Tailor's Label:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j...berlinpol4.jpg

Klaus1989 06-13-2008 09:56 PM

Westberlin Schupo Trousers
 
Here are the matching trousers for above uniform. Dont see these often. Date 1974 and tailored by Heinz Kittelmann but I believe they were worn by same officer. Found crumpled up and (fortunately) unused tissue in one of the pockets!

regards
Klaus

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j...berlinpol5.jpg

Maker's Label:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j...berlinpol6.jpg

Gordon Craig 06-14-2008 11:14 AM

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Klaus,

Very nice additions to your collection. I especially like the NRW tunicwith the pointed shoulderboards.Don't remember seeing that type used on a police uniform before.
As for the berlin police uniform, a great find with the pants. I envy you that. I have been sitting on my hands wondering if I should buy a Berlin police uniorm like yours but couldn't make up my mind. It was more a lack of space to add uniforms to my collection than not wanting to buy the uniform. I saw one of these last year in the museum at the old McNair barracks in Berlin and I have wanted one ever since. Well your post of your new Berlin police uniform made up my mind for me and I just bought one. Here is a picture of what I have bought. I'll post more pictures when it arrives and see how it compares with yours.

Regards,

Gordon

Klaus1989 06-14-2008 11:25 AM

Gordon:
Well, I envy you for tie and cap!:laugh: Cannot see rank patch but I would guess you purchased EM rank one judging from cap. May not have all the unusual features mine has, since I would guess those are reserved for officers, but I could be wrong.

Someday I will complete the entire uniform for this. Got it very cheap on ebay.com of all places!

Any idea about dagger hanger though? I thought it was odd.

regards
Klaus

Guardian 5 06-14-2008 03:39 PM

Great thread. Thanks to all who posted; very informative.


TJ

Gordon Craig 06-15-2008 01:37 AM

Klaus,

No idea about the dagger hanger. I'll have to ask Nico if the one at the McNair museum has a dagger hanger. I didn't get my uniform cheaply but to get the tie and the hat at the same time it was what I would consider a fair price.

Regards,

Gordon

Gordon Craig 06-17-2008 12:18 AM

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Klaus,

Here are some pictures of the uniform that is on display at the McNair Museum.

Regards,

Gordon

Gordon Craig 06-17-2008 12:20 AM

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A close up of the officers cap. Good comparison with the enlisted one on my uniform. The embroidered insignia shows well. The insignia on my cap appears to be metal.

Gordon Craig 06-17-2008 12:22 AM

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A close up of the embroidered rank insignia on the right sleeve.

Guardian 5 07-09-2008 06:50 PM

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Gents - This Schleswig-Holstein M-43 style cap featuring a "BEVO" style state emblem and roundel is currently available on Manion's.

TJ

Huntzman 07-10-2008 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klaus1989 (Post 2683121)
Liner: note reinforced slot on right side of wearer (left in photo) - similar to sword hanger hole - except Schupo didnt wear swords!

Klaus

Not a dagger hanger, those clips are used to attach the pistol holster which was fed through the pocket. Thats why the pocket is reinforced. There should be two clips, which match to the d-ring loops of the holster.

If I can ever track down my box of leather gear (which has been packed away for 5 years) I will try and remember to take a photo of a traditional period setup.

Andrew

SCHUPO 07-10-2008 12:36 PM

Yes, Andrew is correct that this is a pistol holster slot and hanger on the right side of the tunic. There was also a strap attachment that was worn over the shoulder that the pistol could be clipped to. This way the pistol could be worn exposed outside the tunic pocket or concealed under the tunic. Many of the postwar police holsters will have a loop and D ring attachment to facilitate wear on either a belt or clips.

Klaus1989 07-10-2008 12:45 PM

Thanks once again Andrew! You have been a huge help to me (and others).thumbsup

Originally this tunic was posted in "Zoll Uniforms" thread but it has been suggested that is actually Bayern Polizei tunic. If so, it is missing rank insignia on collar tabs and the sleeve patch. I had thought Bayerische uniforms were more grey-green than green but I will see what others may think. Unfortunately no labels but dates from late 1960s or early '70s.

regards
Klaus

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j...BAYpolizei.jpg

Lining:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j...izei/zoll2.jpg

Uncle Kurt 07-10-2008 03:02 PM

Hallo Guardian 5,
The Manions Cap is Bereitschafts Polizei Schleswig-Holstein.
ca. 50iger 60iger Jahre.

Manions Cap is OK thumbsup

Guardian 5 07-10-2008 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Kurt (Post 2725923)
Hallo Guardian 5,
The Manions Cap is Bereitschafts Polizei Schleswig-Holstein.
ca. 50iger 60iger Jahre.

Manions Cap is OK thumbsup

Danke!

Huntzman 07-10-2008 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klaus1989 (Post 2725721)
Thanks once again Andrew!.......

If so, it is missing rank insignia on collar tabs and the sleeve patch.

Klaus

My pleasure to help out in anyway I can.

By the way, this jacket is not missing any insignia on the Kragenspiegel. It is for the rank PK/A (Polizeikommissar / Anwarter) and it's the correct color for Bavaria.

Andrew


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