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-   -   W&P Show Purchases 2019 (http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1012732)

timg 08-09-2019 01:05 PM

W&P Show Purchases 2019
 
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Gents,

Items found and purchased at W&P this year.

Nearly all to be left as is, excepting for the odd dash of oil. Although I was considering a re paint on the Yugo green Laufbehalter.

timg 08-09-2019 01:06 PM

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timg 08-09-2019 01:11 PM

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wp..

timg 08-09-2019 01:15 PM

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wp............. 36 dated has later war legs fitted. They might fall off as I have a pair of WA4 marked legs. (naughty I know)

pzo 08-09-2019 03:00 PM

Tim, accept my most sincere congratulations! All beautiful early pieces. I love them. You must be reach or lucky or both:laugh: Great score!

Paul Ba 08-09-2019 03:26 PM

Very beutiful pieces!! I see there this PT-34 but price was to high for me [opps]

timg 08-10-2019 04:40 AM

Hi guys,

I can assure you I am far far from rich! (god I wish)

I have collected for a while now, some of which was of interest but not "core" to my interests. That gives me the opportunity for trading kit for stuff I really want.
Seems to have worked so far but for how long is another matter as good deals or finds are becoming harder and harder to get.

One of the belts a dealer had held for me as he knows my interest, however the other are found by getting very greasy and digging through loads of boxes. And a bit of luck of course (right place right time etc)

Question for you guys, on the bipods now I have very large clear images, the eagles are looking a little different, in fact one almost looks like a luft eagle? What do you think?? (and why as its an MG34 bipod)

Paul, No more PT34'S for me as they came in pairs and that's me now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last but not least.......do I paint the barrel carrier or let sleeping dogs lie, in theory it would have been in three colour camouflage, but I think the strap is Yugo as well as it has no leather reinforcing as you would expect on an early strap.

Regards

Patty D 08-11-2019 07:52 AM

Very nice finds! thumbsup

Personally, I think the 34 barrel case would benefit from a repaint - if only for display purposes! There can't be too many worse colours than that sickly Yugo green...

timg 08-11-2019 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patty D (Post 8509679)
Very nice finds! thumbsup

Personally, I think the 34 barrel case would benefit from a repaint - if only for display purposes! There can't be too many worse colours than that sickly Yugo green...

Cheers Patty D,

I'm with you on the paint colour, it is a bit sick inducing, I have always wondered about it as its not even a very good shade for helping concealment really when you think about it. Pretty sure that Yugoslavia is not particularly that colour unless I am missing a trick?

Regards

Patty D 08-11-2019 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timg (Post 8509757)
Cheers Patty D,

I'm with you on the paint colour, it is a bit sick inducing, I have always wondered about it as its not even a very good shade for helping concealment really when you think about it. Pretty sure that Yugoslavia is not particularly that colour unless I am missing a trick?

Regards

That's a good point! I wouldn't have thought so either, and if so, it was probably just the cheapest or most plentiful at the time...!? Either way, a three tone camo would definitely suit it and make a good winter project I'm sure!

pzo 08-11-2019 12:55 PM

Tim, keeping this lovely Laufschutzer in this condition deserves only for this::dave: Find pictures of nice original (unless You have one in collection), best if also 1937 dated and paint it as exact copy. It must be done!:peace:smilewink

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patty D (Post 8509803)
That's a good point! I wouldn't have thought so either, and if so, it was probably just the cheapest or most plentiful at the time...!? Either way, a three tone camo would definitely suit it and make a good winter project I'm sure!


timg 08-11-2019 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pzo (Post 8509833)
Tim, keeping this lovely Laufschutzer in this condition deserves only for this::dave: Find pictures of nice original (unless You have one in collection), best if also 1937 dated and paint it as exact copy. It must be done!:peace:smilewink

PZO.........or may I call you PZ ? :)

I have been trying to find convincing images of MG34 gear in 3 colour camo for about 6 years now on and off, I have only found Ammo boxes and Laffette pics. So getting an image is easier said than done :laugh:

Never ever have I seen a Laufshutzer in full 3 colour except for tiny bits on my 36 dated one and of course the MG13 Kit that you see for sale. Even then, some is a really gloss finish and others more Matt. Difficult to make a decision.

Any advanced or long term collectors out in the big wide world who have a diamond MG34 barrel carrier in Wiemar 3 colour camo in the collection, most indebted if you could get a couple of colour pics up to give me a bit of direction{help}

pzo 08-11-2019 02:13 PM

PZ is more like Panzer. Sounds good though I have started as PZO - Polskie Zakłady Optyczne:laugh: Most period pictures are unfortunately black and white. Inside of my Rohrkasten for Flak 30 is painted in 3 colour camouflage pattern. If You wish I can try to make more close up pictures to determine if it is more gloss or Matt finish. Kasten is 1938 dated so it is close to date on Laufschutzer. Yes, people, let's help Tim to make his Laufschutzer look like it should. By the way, share pictures of Your tiny bits of camouflage on 1936 dated Layfschutzer[love]:peace:

Quote:

Originally Posted by timg (Post 8509852)
PZO.........or may I call you PZ ? :)

I have been trying to find convincing images of MG34 gear in 3 colour camo for about 6 years now on and off, I have only found Ammo boxes and Laffette pics. So getting an image is easier said than done :laugh:

Never ever have I seen a Laufshutzer in full 3 colour except for tiny bits on my 36 dated one and of course the MG13 Kit that you see for sale. Even then, some is a really gloss finish and others more Matt. Difficult to make a decision.

Any advanced or long term collectors out in the big wide world who have a diamond MG34 barrel carrier in Wiemar 3 colour camo in the collection, most indebted if you could get a couple of colour pics up to give me a bit of direction{help}


timg 08-12-2019 09:13 AM

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Hi PZ,

With black and white pics you can sometimes see a tonal difference that can indicate a pattern, you just cant be sure which colour is which although the green is normally a darker tone.

I will post some pics on my options that I have but the differences can be quite large even with the same manufacturer.

single ammo can is BSW 1938 but quite gloss, and the double is BSW as well but very matt.

timg 08-12-2019 09:18 AM

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.....

Erdgelb is on the locking lever of my AA Driebien and a bit on the 36 Laufshutzer,

Only trace amounts but shows it was used. Barrel carrier is over painted with Norwegian green with field grey under

timg 08-12-2019 09:27 AM

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.............

timg 08-12-2019 09:57 AM

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As can be seen from this late 1930's model car, the Germans progressed from 3 colour camouflage..........back to 3 colour camouflage over a period of say 8-9 years of conflict.

And I reckon when you look from the first scheme to the second the tone of the colours are remarkably similar even if the actual painting of the scheme became a little more involved.

The picture is generic off the net, Manufacturers were Lineol or Elastolin. Many of the early equipment was produced by these guys 88's , Krup Protz 6Wheeler armoured cars and Mk1 Pnzr to name a few.

Regards

pzo 08-12-2019 11:52 AM

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Here are some pictures of my Rohrkasten Flak 30 box. Close examination indicates that base colour was green, oversprayed by yellow and mustard brown. Thank You Tim for posting pictures of tiny pieces of paint. They are important.thumbsup:peace:

pzo 08-12-2019 11:54 AM

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More pictures.

timg 08-12-2019 01:59 PM

PZ,

Mmm, that large box of yours would match up to the single glossy ammo can that I pictured, same process was followed.

Whole can given a base coat of green with the other 2 colours over sprayed. Ive checked the matt can I have and that is the same so it looks to be common methodology for spraying the camouflage pattern.

I will most likely go down the slightly more glossy finish. Thanks for the pics, much appreciated.

me6_130 08-13-2019 02:14 AM

Gents! there's a party on and I was missing it!!!!!:laugh:

Nice items Tim. I agree with Patty and Pzo, a nice repaint would be better than that Yugo apple green. Lovely early items altogether.

-Another PT34!!!! It's in my list already, and pics filed. I had no HASAG 37 in my list. It went from 1935-36 to 1940-41 for HASAG. missing 37, 38 and 39, so you've filled a bit of the gap. It is curious, seems BSW only produced in 1937 and 38...so 1939 is still missing. Could you please confirm the WaA?


Carles

PS. I've got 41 PT34s in my list.

Petroleum 1 08-13-2019 07:07 AM

What are the German RLM numbers on those 3 colors??

timg 08-13-2019 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petroleum 1 (Post 8510953)
What are the German RLM numbers on those 3 colors??

Hi their Petrolium,

I will drop a link at the bottom for a decent website with names etc and RAL number descriptions.

The problem is of course that the RAL numbers used pre war to not translate to modern RAL listings.

When I go in for my paint I will take the ammo can and look at the modern RAL cards and see if I can match up and get a set of modern numbers for record purposes.

Whilst it references vehicles on the site, small equipment and cases were included in the colour schemes. You see plenty of chests, mine cases etc with this scheme.

Website Below

https://panzerworld.com/german-armor-camouflage

Regards

Tim

timg 08-13-2019 01:21 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by me6_130 (Post 8510821)
Gents! there's a party on and I was missing it!!!!!:laugh:

Nice items Tim. I agree with Patty and Pzo, a nice repaint would be better than that Yugo apple green. Lovely early items altogether.

-Another PT34!!!! It's in my list already, and pics filed. I had no HASAG 37 in my list. It went from 1935-36 to 1940-41 for HASAG. missing 37, 38 and 39, so you've filled a bit of the gap. It is curious, seems BSW only produced in 1937 and 38...so 1939 is still missing. Could you please confirm the WaA?


Carles

PS. I've got 41 PT34s in my list.

Hi Carles,

41 on the list is quite impressive, but not many left when you consider how many must have been made!

I will speak to the guy who had them as he had 3 to see if they are new references for you.
What we need is for some bloke to find a few hundred carriers in a shed some place so we get a chance to get one!
Waffen pic below for record

me6_130 08-13-2019 02:42 PM

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That's the exact WaA stamp I was expectingthumbsup

41 PT34 vs 191 DT15 + 5 PT13. Those are my present numbers.

Carriers? I've had several but couldn't keep them as I needed money for other things. Her's a couple of pics. That in first pics went to a friend. One in the other went to the Weald Fundation.

C.

timg 08-14-2019 12:59 PM

Re Carriers
 
Carles you madman.............you nearly gave me a heart attack when you said you had had several and got rid of them! I meant the trommeltrager 34 for the PT34 and you meant the top covers! :laugh:

Tell you what tho, you can spill the beans on the top cover with the large S/38 engraved on the lid, even the waffenampts look to be of better quality than normally seen. Whats the story on that one and can you remember the manufacturer? I have never seen one marked up like that.

PS....Just noticed the markings on the side but cant read them........Serial Number??

Regards

Tim

me6_130 08-14-2019 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timg (Post 8511925)
Carles you madman.............you nearly gave me a heart attack when you said you had had several and got rid of them! I meant the trommeltrager 34 for the PT34 and you meant the top covers! :laugh:

Tell you what tho, you can spill the beans on the top cover with the large S/38 engraved on the lid, even the waffenampts look to be of better quality than normally seen. Whats the story on that one and can you remember the manufacturer? I have never seen one marked up like that.

PS....Just noticed the markings on the side but cant read them........Serial Number??

Regards

Tim

Soooorry Tim,

I confuse trager and halter :banghead:

As I mentioned to someone today, I was buying a lot that included that cover. I liked it but didn't have enough money to buy the total, so had to sell something. A friend wanted a cover but wouldn't take one of mine, as he wanted it with nice WaA stamps. I then offered him that one to come, and he liked it, so just as I got it I sent it to him. It looked very nice, perhaps finished by hand. Maker would be S/38 but haven't been able to find the name, and might have been produced in 1934 and serial number 0068. All markings were pantographed and not standard looking but, as the cover looked very early and possibly prototype?, I thought the markings were consistent with the item. Not a line production item but very well made so would fit well on an MG34 and smooth with th mag.

Carles

timg 08-25-2019 08:58 AM

refurb on carrier for barrell
 
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Well, spent a bit of time in the garden doing some paint removing, v hot today and yesterday so a bit of spray painting and its done.

Needs to be dirtied down as its all a bit fresh, but once scruffed up should tone in nicely with the can and tripod.

timg 08-25-2019 09:07 AM

MG Snow shoes
 
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Picked these up at the military show on Saturday. Came out of Finland as posted a short while ago.

Straps are present but are literally crumbling away in front of my eyes, not surprising really. More surprising that they are present.

Shoe looks the same as in Volk's book, however the strap arrangement is slightly different being two sets of buckle together as opposed to one loop and one buckle together as shown in the book.

Looks to be factory pressed and punched, but no evidence of any markings that I can see yet from a cursory view. Must measure the straps before they turn to dust !

timg 08-25-2019 09:16 AM

second pic with bipod
 
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....

Pretty sure looking at the arrangement that one set of long straps will pass behind the leg and "through" the oval hole for latching the legs up to the base of the barrel. The other straps cross over the top and pull the foot firmly down.

No chance of folding the bipod with these fitted.

Regards

Patty D 08-28-2019 04:50 AM

Glad to see you refinished the barrel carrier Tim. It looks great!!

timg 08-28-2019 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patty D (Post 8520942)
Glad to see you refinished the barrel carrier Tim. It looks great!!

Cheers PattyD,

I know some folks might frown, but its not like I wrecked a really good one with original German paint finish. Picture is a bit weird actually as on the ground the colours are really good but in the pic the green and brown come out a bit off.

May be reflective values on the paint when subject to flash as we cant get lead based paints anymore. Won't do anything about the sling and just leave as is on that score.

Fills a hole in the collection.

pzo 08-28-2019 10:22 AM

Good attitude. Well done Tim. There was no reason to leave in former condition. That was nasty. You might be right about colours and using flash. Try to make some outdoor pictures in some shady place, without flash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by timg (Post 8520992)
Cheers PattyD,

I know some folks might frown, but its not like I wrecked a really good one with original German paint finish. Picture is a bit weird actually as on the ground the colours are really good but in the pic the green and brown come out a bit off.

May be reflective values on the paint when subject to flash as we cant get lead based paints anymore. Won't do anything about the sling and just leave as is on that score.

Fills a hole in the collection.



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