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-   -   Thoughts on this ebay item (http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56230)

Si1964 06-12-2004 02:03 PM

Thoughts on this ebay item
I have come across this one on ebay, berets is not really my thing, but is it OK? If so is it over priced??



Jack Dutton-Roberts 06-12-2004 03:27 PM

Hi Simon,

The beret is an original but I suspect the badge has been added to increase its value. Berets of this type with khaki liner were produced by Kangol Wear Limited and all the examples I have seen have been dated 1945.

You could probably find a dated example of this type for not a great deal more but remember, Airborne gear is all the rage at the moment so expect to pay a premium. Give it a few years and hopefully it will have calmed down.

I also suspect the badge maybe a restrike, so beware!

Many thanks from Jack.

Si1964 06-12-2004 04:16 PM

Hi Jack,

Thanks for the quick reply, I must admit that this forum, espically you and Ade have reinvigored my interest in collecting British espcially Arborne, but like most thing prices increase and fads come and go i.e. Band of Brothers.

As you said its easy to get a beret and put a badge on it and command more money.

Whilst picking your brains, could you have a look at the following for me give me your comments and advise on the price. As far as I can remember war time produced smocks use to command reasonable prices, is this OTT or on line with market demands??


Thanks Again

Jack Dutton-Roberts 06-12-2004 04:28 PM

Hi Simon,

The Denison Smock on ebay is a nice example and one like this would command a good price. It must be remembered that this is a 2nd pattern and therefore not as desirable as a 1st pattern but still the price is in line with current market demands. But in reality I suspect this Smock will finish around 500 given that this year marks the 60th anniversary of D-Day and Market Garden.

Ebay is a great place for finding items but of course buyer beware applies throughout. I have had some of my best items from here and looking on it is well worthwhile. But remember that nice examples of Denison Smocks on ebay will go for higher prices than normal due to the large size of the market it reaches eg. the Dutch who go crazy for British Airborne militaria. My advice is to have a good shop around if you want a nice Denison. You will probably find a nice 2nd pattern like the one on ebay for less if you're lucky or even a more sought after 1st pattern for a little more.

Thanks from Jack.

LeeG 06-12-2004 04:43 PM

Hey Jack,
Was there such a thing as a 3rd pattern Denison? If there was indeed such a smock, were they WW2-era? What brings this to mind is the description of the smock on offer from Regimentals:

Si1964 06-12-2004 04:55 PM

Again Jack thanks for the quick reply. I will wait and see how it goes, but will most probably listen to your sound advice and wait to see what else comes along.

Thanks Again

Jack Dutton-Roberts 06-12-2004 05:01 PM

Hi Lee,

The terms 2nd pattern and 3rd pattern are terms given to Denison Smocks by collectors I believe. A "2nd Pattern" Smock has metal popper type cuffs whereas a "3rd Pattern" has flat plastic type cuffs. Both types were manufactured during WW2.

When the pattern of Denison Smock was changed in 1946 the buttons changed to nickel and the cuffs were knitted like the 1st Pattern.

Hope this helps, from Jack.

Si1964 06-12-2004 05:23 PM

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Hi Jack

Could you cast your eyes over the following two shots from a dealers site

The helmet is priced at 385

Si1964 06-12-2004 05:23 PM

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The smock is also 385

Si1964 06-12-2004 05:25 PM

It doesn't mean I can afford both, would probably put both on my card if I had to :D , but explaining that to the wife :banghead: :laugh:

Thanks in advance

Si1964 06-12-2004 05:37 PM

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And finally......

Another one that I have found....

Si1964 06-12-2004 05:37 PM

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pic 2

Si1964 06-12-2004 05:38 PM

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pic 3

Si1964 06-12-2004 05:39 PM

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pic 4

Jack Dutton-Roberts 06-13-2004 04:09 PM

Hi Simon,

The Airborne helmet is the 3rd pattern with webbing chin straps and it is the most common type. It was produced from 1943 well into the 1970s I think. This one is a nice example as it has painted unit insignia on - sorry I don't know what it is? These helmets are usually dated on the leather sweatband in the liner. 385 would be the price if it is a wartime helmet. I little overpriced probably - sorry it's just me, I don't particularly rate 3rd pattern webbing chin straps Airborne helmets :D as alot of people do and they can go for crazy money at places like Beltring. But believe me if you wanna send any my way, no problem thumbsup

The first Denison is a 2nd pattern and these were produced from 1943 to 1945. I think this one has been altered because the half zip has been replaced with buttons. Who know if that Para wing really belongs on there as well...It's in pretty bad shape too. I'd steer clear!

The last Denison - off ebay I believe? This one has got me...it is a 2nd pattern but with post-war type nickel buttons and it is 1942 dated!!! Remember 2nd patterns were not made in 1942!! I think the label looks homemade too but this is just my own opinion. I think it is a post war made Smock using wartime pattern materials but with post-war type nickel buttons and a dodgy label...not to mention the repro Glider Pilot Wing :thumbdown Ahhh this one's got me :tookitint

Cheers from Jack.

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