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-   -   MG Werkzeug , which to keep? (http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=675091)

me6_130 06-05-2013 09:13 AM

MG Werkzeug , which to keep?
 
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Gentlemen,

As some of you already know, I collect MG 34 and Panzer Items. I've just got a new "MG Werkzeug" box for my collection and I have to choose one...and let the other go, but which one would you keep?

The one at the left is the "new" one. The paint outside is a bit damaged, as is the MG Werkzeug label...but the interior is in far better condition than that at the right, the "old" one...It even has ALL the metal fittings, while the oiler support is missing in the "old" one...so I don't know what to do.:tookitint Please let me know your opinions:)


The wooden block are not original, so I can make a new set if needed.


Carles

me6_130 06-05-2013 09:17 AM

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Empty:

stef 06-05-2013 02:53 PM

i would keep the right it looks nicer outside

petopoint 06-05-2013 03:05 PM

Ditto
 
Agree, since once all your gear is in place you barely notice any differences as far as the interior goes. You can rig up the new ones oil canister support onto the new one also. Aesthetically, the exterior will be seen 90% more so then the int. too.thumbsup

phil337 06-05-2013 04:06 PM

Hey Carles,

Excellent Boxes, i would keep both IMO there are hardly any of these about, and they both look great with thier original color :)

me6_130 06-06-2013 03:31 AM

Thanks for your opinions,

I tend to prefer the "new" one because it is more complete, but I like the "old" one because the cover looks nicer.
Phill, thanks also, I would keep both but that means I wouldn't be considerate with other fellow collectors that are willing to have one[angel] :laugh:. No, seriously, you know they are not cheap items, and I've only got enough Panzermantel MG34 for one tank, so I don't need two MG Werkzeug boxes. Can anyone confirm there was only ONE MG Werkzeug box in german tanks...? By selling one I'll be able to buy something else I also need...


Carles

Satcong101 06-06-2013 05:18 AM

If you decide to sell one Carles I'd be very interested :)

dEVIL 06-06-2013 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stef (Post 5919242)
i would keep the right it looks nicer outside

+1

me6_130 06-06-2013 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dEVIL (Post 5920007)
+1

But technically the other is much more complete...Is no one with me? It is very difficult to find one with the oiler support in original condition...


Carles

Satcong101 06-07-2013 02:46 AM

Looking only at the last photo (the other with the contents kind of throws you) and judging which to keep is a very tough call, yes the internals are more complete on the left, but the outer is in a poorer condition compared to the right hand version. Personally I'd keep the right one.

Jock Auld 06-07-2013 10:14 AM

Keep both or perhaps swap the lids by taking out the hinge pin?

Jock:)

me6_130 06-07-2013 11:31 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jock Auld (Post 5921495)
Keep both

I would like to keep both but I want to buy a Tokarev SVT 40 in working condition. I've already got the sniper sight:king:


http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=672121


Quote:

Originally Posted by Jock Auld (Post 5921495)
or perhaps swap the lids by taking out the hinge pin?

Jock:)

I had thought about that already but unfortunatelly the hinge parts don't coincide:tookitint


Here are both boxes bare of disturbing items

Carles

me6_130 06-07-2013 03:43 PM

Gentlemen,

According to David Byrden a Tiger tank would have TWO of such MG. Werkzeug boxes:Eeeeeek: Does any one know if this was also the case of PzKpfw III and IV???

http://tiger1.info/EN/MG-toolboxes.html

I can imagine a tank would have two MG.-Zubehör boxes, as butts and bipods are needed for each MG, but two MG. Werkzeug boxes would mean 4 spare bolts, 4 MG13 spanners, 2 hot barrel pads, etc.:grumble:

Carles

phil337 06-07-2013 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by me6_130 (Post 5921901)
Gentlemen,

According to David Byrden a Tiger tank would have TWO of such MG. Werkzeug boxes:Eeeeeek: Does any one know if this was also the case of PzKpfw III and IV???

http://tiger1.info/EN/MG-toolboxes.html

I can imagine a tank would have two MG.-Zubehör boxes, as butts and bipods are needed for each MG, but two MG. Werkzeug boxes would mean 4 spare bolts, 4 MG13 spanners, 2 hot barrel pads, etc.:grumble:

Carles


Hey Carles,

Yes two boxes would make sence for each of the ball and coaxial mounted mg34s, as each kit only contains 1x spare recoil booster (if this is proper name for it)?, so two boxes with one spare recoil booster in each, for each of the mg34s?

me6_130 06-07-2013 05:23 PM

Phil,

I'm not sure a booster cone is so important, if not, every machine gunner would have one in their gunner pouch, and they didn't. I believe there was only one spare flash hider set in the Z-kasten kept at company level? Gunner pouches only had 1 spare bolt, so 2 spare bolts in the MG. Werkzeug box could be for 2 machine guns. I think 4 spare bolts are too many.

Carles

grndevil44 06-07-2013 09:42 PM

if just one, would be the better writing that would win, I saw one for sale back in the day...

btw here is a list I found inside a tool pouch

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=252830

me6_130 06-08-2013 04:53 AM

Hello John,

Thanks for your opinion. (I'll be writting something in that other thread)thumbsup

Well, 100% of opinions are that I kept that with the nicer cover. I am really surprised :eek: I imagine it has to do with collectability, so the one that would look nicer in a collection is the one a collector would like. I see it from a practical point of view: Which one would a german soldier prefer: the one that is complete because it will do the work, the label would be unnecessary. It is much more difficult to restore the metal work than the paint. I think I will restore the new one and then I'll decide.

Gentlemen, thanks to all. I will let you see both restored and my final decission.

Please, if any could confirm how many MG.Werkzeug boxes went in a german tank, I would be very greatful. I can't find it in my Pazer III -IV manuals.:uhoh2:

PS. My elder son (8 years old) prefers the complete:laugh:

me6_130 07-06-2013 10:51 AM

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Gentlemen,

I've been working a bit...and here you are:

The oiler support ring is not welded in place yet, but I'll do it in the next days.


Carles

me6_130 07-06-2013 10:52 AM

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and the cover:


Carles

gurtsack 07-19-2013 02:51 AM

Hello Carles!
Inside box is an orginal or a one restauration?

regards
gurtsack

me6_130 07-19-2013 05:06 AM

Hello Gurt,

The wooden blocks are replacements. The one at the left has all original metal fittings while the one at the right also has the oiler ring and two of the wooden parts of the cover replaced. Paintwork is original in both. I have just finished restoring the one at the right:smokin:.



Carles

grndevil44 07-19-2013 02:33 PM

good job Carles, both keepers !

me6_130 07-19-2013 04:36 PM

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The final touch...of the seller (the one at the right):bye:, once the oiler ring has been welded and painted:


Carles

me6_130 09-02-2013 09:19 AM

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Well, just a little update:

My old MG-Werkzeug box has found a new homethumbsup in a friend's collection. As I've been restoring some boxes lately, both MG-Zubehör and MG-Werkzeug, I can offer my experience to those members who might need their boxes restored, just PM.

Carles

me6_130 03-03-2014 11:50 AM

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An update. I've been working a bit these last days and I've finished restoring another MG Werkzeug box.:king:

me6_130 03-03-2014 11:57 AM

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and also an MG Zubehör box. It only needs a bit of black for the wooden blocks.:smokin: I will shortly be putting these on sale[angel]

Carles

me6_130 03-08-2014 01:42 PM

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Both boxes finished. I will probably post the at E-stand soonthumbsup

Carles

me6_130 03-11-2014 06:13 AM

The werkzeug box is available at E-stand now:

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=726629

Carles

me6_130 03-28-2014 03:09 AM

I have posted some other MG34 AFV "panzer" related box and ammo systems at the firearms forum:

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=728879


Carles

me6_130 06-27-2014 12:13 PM

NEW!! Werkzeug box!!
 
2 Attachment(s)
Gentlemen,

I've just got a new Werkzeugbox. It will be restore, of course...and once done I will decide if I keep this one or the other one I have.

Now, curious, the paint is best quality of the 5 or 6 I have seen and handed. It is not painted elfenbein directly on to the metal surface but has a whitish primer layer.


Carles

me6_130 06-27-2014 12:16 PM

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Another curiosity...IT IS WaA STAMPED!!!! :Eeeeeek:I had never seen a Werkzeug or Zubehör box WaA stamped. This makes me think it is an early (mid war) item.


Carles


PS: seems WaA 763 can be related to -Meta Metallwerk GmbH, Arnstadt, Thüringen P397.

me6_130 10-08-2014 01:57 PM

Defective blue MG-Werkzeug box
 
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Well...a new one. Bought it recently from another member. A rare early ordenance blue (panzer grey/ blau grau) MG-Werkzeug box. As most of those around, it is incomplete due to possible reuse post war. It still has about a 95% of it's original paint and very light rust in some spots.


Carles

me6_130 10-08-2014 02:19 PM

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Now, studying it in detail I would think it had been complete, as you can see the prints of the missing wooden blocks and metal fittings, but looks as undelivered and never fit in a tank.


Carles

me6_130 10-08-2014 02:34 PM

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I was wondering why it lacked the MG-Werkzeug stencil and why it has a red dot painted instead. Perhaps it was used somewhere else than a tank...by a Waffenmeister, perhaps undelivered...till I tried to fit one of the MG wrenches...but no way, it just wouldn't fit.

Carles

me6_130 10-08-2014 04:24 PM

The wooden fittings are solid blocks instead of plywood...they look original but are a bit smaller than other original I have seen and in wrong position ( that's why wrenches don't fit). Rivets are aluminium, and could be correct for an early box, as I have found some other box with aluminium rivets...but are badly stamped. So my thought is: either some previous owner tried to restore it and did a bad work...or factory defect, and that would explain the red dot, lack of stencil and why it doesn't show any wear.


Carles

me6_130 12-14-2014 08:52 AM

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I'm sorry once again...I couldn't help buying this one. My intention is good...I only want to bring it back to it's former glory:army:

Carles

me6_130 12-14-2014 08:56 AM

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Once restored, together with the other two previous ones ( the blue and the WaAted one) I will let one or two go, as it would be egotism to keep them all (and not too good for my pocketsmilewink)

Carles

mkVsten 12-14-2014 12:49 PM

Carles,

Keep up the good work of bringing these back to the way they were. Keep us posted of your progress.

me6_130 12-15-2014 01:21 PM

Thanks, that's my intention...unfortunately I've got a muscle spasm in my right shoulder:cry:. I haven't been able to work in the last two weeks:tookitint I am using my left hand to write, right now, and I've put a sling around my right arm, so I don't move it much.

Carles

me6_130 01-15-2015 06:21 PM

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Today I've been working on the welding of the missing metal fittingss in those boxes shown previously, tree in one go.

BTW, seems someone was afraid of me buying the latest MG Werkzeug box at E-pay:laugh: He bid 4 times to make sure I wouldn't get it...but I have too many alreadysmilewink and it was in poor shape:


http://offer.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...84.m1438.l2765

http://www.ebay.de/itm/ORIGINALE-Pan...p2047675.l2557

As you can see in the last pic of the add, seller has used one of my pics posted in this thread:nono:. Might he be a member here? So, I guess I can post his pics here then.


Carles


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