wehrmacht awards


Go Back   Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums > Ken Jasper International Militaria Forums > Imperial Uniforms and Headgear

Imperial Uniforms and Headgear Imperial German Pickelhaubes and Uniforms.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

Old 09-18-2019, 08:08 AM   #16
Seigfried
Member
 
Seigfried is offline
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land of Hope & Glory!
Posts: 4,464
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forssmann View Post
Ballistics are an interesting thing. One round may obliterate a watermelon, the next might simple zip right through. This helmet makes me think a round zipped right through it.
I agree - a simple entry wound, the round then tumbles on impact of bone etc and leaves a massive exit wound. I have worked extensively within a RAMC Field Surgical Team in Iraq/Afghan and have seen this often. The energy of the round also causes 'cavitation' as it passes through, the shock waves of the high velocity round turning tissue into jelly. It is not until CT that the full extent of the damage becomes obvious.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-18-2019, 11:11 AM   #17
hagen.191
Member
 
hagen.191's Avatar
 
hagen.191 is online now
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 1,555
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seigfried View Post
I agree - a simple entry wound, the round then tumbles on impact of bone etc and leaves a massive exit wound. I have worked extensively within a RAMC Field Surgical Team in Iraq/Afghan and have seen this often. The energy of the round also causes 'cavitation' as it passes through, the shock waves of the high velocity round turning tissue into jelly. It is not until CT that the full extent of the damage becomes obvious.
Great Informations. Very helpful in this topic thanks a lot.

Here is another battle damaged helmet out of my collection with blood stained liner that was hit by a slow bullet or shrapnel. Great frontal impact and no exit hole.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G930F mit Tapatalk
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-12-2019, 05:13 AM   #18
PlaceOfBayonets
Member
 
PlaceOfBayonets's Avatar
 
PlaceOfBayonets is offline
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 4,860
Default

I suppose that entry hole could have been made by Shrapnel but it sure does look like that guy with the Ax did some work on it from that pile he was pick axing.

It's also possible the Helmet was sitting up side down in a trench when an air burst sent something through it.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-12-2019, 05:21 AM   #19
hagen.191
Member
 
hagen.191's Avatar
 
hagen.191 is online now
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 1,555
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlaceOfBayonets View Post
I suppose that entry hole could have been made by Shrapnel but it sure does look like that guy with the Ax did some work on it from that pile he was pick axing.



It's also possible the Helmet was sitting up side down in a trench when an air burst sent something through it.
Thanks for your opinions. But an axe from behind that penetrates the back and the Front? Doesnt make sense in my opinion. Axe holes can be seen on the Dome.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G930F mit Tapatalk
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-12-2019, 06:59 AM   #20
ROBB
Association Member
 
ROBB's Avatar
 
ROBB is online now
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 15,590
Default

There are loads of photos of dead German soldiers. And Brit American french etc lying on battlefields with a helmet on and a hole in it but still a complete head . The exploding engine shrapnel thing is completely different. In my experience a large percentage of ww1 German helmets have damage I have a few. Some I believe were just shelled to **** some with bullet holes. Ww1 wasn’t a nice place to be. I just bought another. Rob
__________________
God please take justin bieber and gave us dio back

Last edited by ROBB; 10-12-2019 at 07:15 AM.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-12-2019, 08:01 AM   #21
Forssmann
Association Member
 
Forssmann's Avatar
 
Forssmann is offline
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: NC
Posts: 170
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBB View Post
There are loads of photos of dead German soldiers. And Brit American french etc lying on battlefields with a helmet on and a hole in it but still a complete head . The exploding engine shrapnel thing is completely different. In my experience a large percentage of ww1 German helmets have damage I have a few. Some I believe were just shelled to **** some with bullet holes. Ww1 wasn’t a nice place to be. I just bought another. Rob
I recommend reading "Storm of Steel" by Ernst Junger to get arguably the most accurate account of WW1, through the eyes of a German storm trooper. I blurted "oh my god..." countless times while reading it.
__________________
2D BN 9TH Marines - Hell in a Helmet
OEF 2011 & 2012
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-16-2019, 03:24 AM   #22
PlaceOfBayonets
Member
 
PlaceOfBayonets's Avatar
 
PlaceOfBayonets is offline
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 4,860
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hagen.191 View Post
Thanks for your opinions. But an axe from behind that penetrates the back and the Front? Doesnt make sense in my opinion. Axe holes can be seen on the Dome.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G930F mit Tapatalk
Well I did explain how that could have happened. I am assuming nothing here. Why are the holes vastly different if the same projectile made the hole?
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-16-2019, 07:21 AM   #23
Forssmann
Association Member
 
Forssmann's Avatar
 
Forssmann is offline
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: NC
Posts: 170
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hagen.191 View Post
Great Informations. Very helpful in this topic thanks a lot.

Here is another battle damaged helmet out of my collection with blood stained liner that was hit by a slow bullet or shrapnel. Great frontal impact and no exit hole.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G930F mit Tapatalk
this looks like a bullet struck the helmet mid tumble. There are some good videos on youtube demonstrating the penetration of rifles like the M1 garand. several layers of wood and concrete cinder blocks are lined up and shot, the entry is a nice hole, but several layers in, the hole looks oblong due to the bullet beginning to tumble. A tumbling bullet striking a helmet on the bullet's side would spread the energy out more efficiently on impact, which is most likely why there is a massive dent accompanying the entry. I imagine this fellow was behind a wall or some other cover, and a GI with his 30-06 or a Brit with his 303 sent a powerful round through the the wall, the round began to tumble, and entered this helmet.

just my 2 cents
__________________
2D BN 9TH Marines - Hell in a Helmet
OEF 2011 & 2012
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-17-2019, 10:12 AM   #24
Elmar Lang
Member
 
Elmar Lang is offline
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Southern Europe
Posts: 703
Default

Hello,

re. the WW1 camouflage helmet, subject of this discussion, I've shown the pictures to a friend of mine, who's a forensic examiner.

His opinion, given at a first glance, is that the roughly "square" entrance hole, allows to suppose the helmet was pierced by a shell-splinter, not far from the place of explosion, so that it still had enough cynematic energy to enter the helmet, pass through the head of the helmet's wearer and open an exit hole, expectedly larger and irregular than the first one. The wound was surely fatal. He also added that most probably, the man suffered even heavier wounds to his body, due to the effects of a shell explosion nearby.

most probably the skull didn't explode.

An interesting witness of that tragical war.

All the best,

Enzo (E.L.)
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-17-2019, 12:15 PM   #25
hagen.191
Member
 
hagen.191's Avatar
 
hagen.191 is online now
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 1,555
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forssmann View Post
this looks like a bullet struck the helmet mid tumble. There are some good videos on youtube demonstrating the penetration of rifles like the M1 garand. several layers of wood and concrete cinder blocks are lined up and shot, the entry is a nice hole, but several layers in, the hole looks oblong due to the bullet beginning to tumble. A tumbling bullet striking a helmet on the bullet's side would spread the energy out more efficiently on impact, which is most likely why there is a massive dent accompanying the entry. I imagine this fellow was behind a wall or some other cover, and a GI with his 30-06 or a Brit with his 303 sent a powerful round through the the wall, the round began to tumble, and entered this helmet.

just my 2 cents
Your acknowledge is really appreciated! Thanks again!

Gesendet von meinem SM-G930F mit Tapatalk
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-17-2019, 12:16 PM   #26
hagen.191
Member
 
hagen.191's Avatar
 
hagen.191 is online now
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 1,555
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmar Lang View Post
Hello,



re. the WW1 camouflage helmet, subject of this discussion, I've shown the pictures to a friend of mine, who's a forensic examiner.



His opinion, given at a first glance, is that the roughly "square" entrance hole, allows to suppose the helmet was pierced by a shell-splinter, not far from the place of explosion, so that it still had enough cynematic energy to enter the helmet, pass through the head of the helmet's wearer and open an exit hole, expectedly larger and irregular than the first one. The wound was surely fatal. He also added that most probably, the man suffered even heavier wounds to his body, due to the effects of a shell explosion nearby.



most probably the skull didn't explode.



An interesting witness of that tragical war.



All the best,



Enzo (E.L.)
Great to have heard an expert opinion! A big thanks to your friend!

Gesendet von meinem SM-G930F mit Tapatalk
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-17-2019, 12:54 PM   #27
Chris Boonzaier
Member
 
Chris Boonzaier's Avatar
 
Chris Boonzaier is offline
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 10,110
Default

"I agree - a simple entry wound, the round then tumbles on impact of bone etc and leaves a massive exit wound."



... I think it important to remember that modern bullets leave different wounds to bullets of back them.


There are Photos of the Boer war where mauser rounds went into the chest of a British soldier, and out of his back... and the wounds front and back looked as if he had been stabbed with a pencil.


There is an interesting study of wound profiles of Russian bullets from WW1 to modern day bullets... the WW1 / WW2 rifle rounds were more or less straight through.... then starting from the AK47 onwards the bullets were made to "tumble" causing much larger wounds... so a WW1 helmet could very well have a througha nd through head wound at close range.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump






vBulletin skins developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Wehrmacht-Awards.com