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Al Valore di Marina - U-Boat Kapt F Guggenberger
Old 10-16-2019, 10:50 AM   #1
roystone
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Default Al Valore di Marina - U-Boat Kapt F Guggenberger

Gentlemen,
I was wondering if I might get some thoughts on an Al Valore di Marina recently acquired? I attach a couple of photos of the medal.
Friederich Guggenberger we know a lot about, and I know for certain he was awarded both Silver and Bronze AVMs by the Italian regime for services in the Med (sinking the Ark Royal) However, this particular example is a mystery to me, as it appears to not be an Italian made example, judging from the "800" mark and the small makers cartouche, which, from it's distinctive lozenge shape, could be that of Karl Hohmann of Pforzheim.
The wreath on the obverse differs from the Italian model too, and the engraving is cute but crude.Interestingly, it has his rank (Captain) in Italian ..TDV = Tenente di vasello".
Bearing in mind Guggenberger was sunk by the US in 1943, I suspect his original medals might be at the bottom of the Atlantic. And once captured (and escaped twice) he was not released til 1946.
It would seem a lot of effort to me, to fake a medal like this on an odd disc with comparatively crude naming, bearing in mind there are plenty of unnamed "FG" Italian issues out there to spuriously name up if one was so inclined...!
Any thoughts or advice appreciated and don't hold back!
many thanks
Roy
Attached Images
File Type: jpg fg3.jpg (133.5 KB, 67 views)
File Type: jpg fg4.jpg (93.4 KB, 67 views)
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Old 10-16-2019, 01:37 PM   #2
Dennis S
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I believe it to be a private struck medal and not an official model from the government. This is the second time in recent months I’ve seen a silver private medal without dates for a German .
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Old 10-16-2019, 05:50 PM   #3
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Thanks I'm wondering if there's a link therefore..not too worried about the undated-ness, rather the fact that there could be multiples of spuriously engraved ones!
The silver marks are indicative of a non-government issue you're right. I'm wondering why it might be German-made, post-war?
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Old 10-17-2019, 05:01 AM   #4
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Gentlemen, an update on this one:
I've been looking at the wrong country; from what I can make out the shape of cartouche hallmark is in fact Austrian. It has a "4" (indicating 800 grade silver) what looks like a toucan head facing left, and either an "H" (for 1938-1944 production) or a "W" (for Vienna production from 1922 onwards) difficult to be certain.
This puts a slightly different gloss on it, for it's patently not Italian, but likely a replacement for a lost medal (at the bottom of the Atlantic?) procured after the war's end when it would, (as has been pointed out by another forum member) been politically difficult and likely night on impossible to obtain another from a republican Italian government?

Was there a blossoming trade in badge and medal replacements in the forties - even fifties..? Or maybe an out and out fake for this period. Advice from members sought on this!
Thanks
Roy
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Old 10-17-2019, 07:28 AM   #5
Raffaello Carola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis S View Post
I believe it to be a private struck medal and not an official model from the government. This is the second time in recent months I’ve seen a silver private medal without dates for a German .




this medal was not engraved during the WW2 era. The style of writing is not iItalian.
The date of the military action is missing and this is not possible for a Bravery medal.
best
Raff
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